There can be no question that the Nazarene loved women. Indeed, the very purpose of his first manifestation was to save also that half of humankind that is female. (John 3:16; Matthew 20:28) During his ministry on earth Jesus came into contact with many women. Women featured in his parables. Women are in the contexts of certain important portions of the Christian Scripture. Women were healed by Jesus. Women were taught by him. Women followed him. In the end, one of our Lord’s final thoughts was about a "woman." A review of women and the Nazarene is thrilling and enlightening.

The word group "woman/women" occurs almost 100 times in the four Gospels. Christian women may be interested in the breakdown: Matthew, 22 times; Mark, 12 times; Luke, 43 times; and, John, 22 times. Clearly, we are going to find the Gospel of Luke of much interest to women for the good doctor deals with women two times as much as any of the other Gospels. It is also of interest that two particular letters of Paul deal with women the most: 1 Corinthians 25 times and 1 Timothy 11 times. We will review this in Part Five of The Biblical Woman.

There are less than a dozen women named in the Gospels, including Elizabeth, Anna, Mary, Mary Magdalene, Mary and Martha, Salome, Joanna, Susanna. The Nazarene addresses only two women by name: Martha the sister of Lazarus and Mary Magdalene. He addresses all other women, including his own mother, as "woman" or "daughter." Though many touched Jesus, the Nazarene is reported to only have touched one woman, Peter’s mother-in-law. (Matthew 8:15)

Though women are described as "following" him, no woman is ever called a "disciple." (Matthew 27:55, 56; Luke 8:2; 23:49) The first woman named a disciple was Tabitha (Dorcas) in the Book of Acts. (Acts 9:36) Jesus chose no female among his Twelve Apostles, nor among the Seventy disciples he sent out to preach. No woman is ever seen alone with Jesus and his apostles at night in the mountains or at any other time when he is privately instruction his disciples. Despite the above women figure prominently in the Gospels. Consider three acquainted with the baby Jesus.

There is an elderly Biblical woman mentioned only in the Gospel of Luke -- Anna. She is among the first to greet the babe Jesus.

It is the natural biological necessity for most women to bear children and manage a household. Most lie to see grand-children and sometimes even great-grand-children. Anna looses her husband after seven years of marriage. Evidently she choose to be close to the worship of Jehovah at the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. Anna is one of the handful of women called a "prophetess." (Exodus 15:20; Judges 4:4; 2 Kings 22:14; Nehemiah 6:14; Isaiah 8:3) In this context she is described as regularly "fasting" and "praying" during the worship cycles at the Temple. Surely as an aged women with much life experience she taught the younger women as Paul later directs. (Titus 2:3-5) As a "prophetess" we find her among the first to be "speaking" about deliverance through the new-born Christ. She remains, thanks to Luke, as an outstanding example of modern godly women of age. Anna is an example for those whose youthful vigor has faded and are now limited to only prayers and fasting as part of their worship.

Another elderly woman is to be blessed in a special way. Elizabeth, wife of a dedicated priest, becomes pregnant. She is to give birth to the forerunner of Messiah, John the Baptist. Some believe Elizabeth was a cousin to Mary. The kind of gentle-lady she was is described by Luke.

Elizabeth, kinswoman of Mary of Nazareth, is the only named woman to be described as being "filled with the holy spirit." Under such inspiration she speaks words which have become much used by members of the Catholic Church. Elizabeth recognizes Mary’s child is to be her Lord. Thus she is the first to address Jesus as "Lord." There is no sense of jealousy or envy regarding her own privilege to bear Messiah’s forerunner.

MARY THE MOTHER OF THE LORD

No doubt the most important woman and mother in the Bible is Mary of Nazareth. There must have been very godly and serious reasons why this particular young woman was chosen by the God of heaven to give birth to the future Messiah. She becomes the "virgin" foretold by Isaiah 7:14 (LXX).

When told by the angel Gabriel how she was to be used by God, Mary responds humbly: "Look! The Lord’s (YHWH) slave girl! May it take place with me according to your declaration." (Luke 1:23-38) Some months later when Mary goes to visit her cousin Elizabeth to share her joy, the virgin is inspired to declare:

The Biblical record indicates Mary had other children, the texts calling Jesus "firstborn." How giving birth to the greatest man who ever lived has to take its toll in one way or another of such a woman. The tendency to take oneself too seriously and in affect overshadow her son would be a terrible temptation. It appears that Mary and her other children did not demonstrate their belief in Jesus during his life. (see above)

No teacher of the ancient world did more to liberate women than the Nazarene. This manifests itself in three primary ways:

First, Jesus taught that married men who lusted after a woman other than their wives were in serious, serious danger. (Matthew 5:28) By this the Nazarene elevated women above mere sexual objects whose sole purpose was to pleasure men. The heaven of the Nazarene is quite different than the paradise of Islam. While the Koran promises a multitude of virgins to those men attaining paradise, Jesus taught in the first resurrection there is no marriage. (Luke 20:35)

Secondly, the Nazarene liberates women by giving them also the right to divorce an adulterous husband. (Mark 10:12) This is something the Law of Moses did not permit, for only men could divorce their wives.

Finally, the Galilleans treatment of women in the Gospels demonstrates their equal opportunity for salvation before God. Let us consider some of the women the Nazarene came in touch with and the lessons we learn from him and them.

In the Gospel record we never find Jesus addressing Mary as "mother" save indirectly at his execution. (John 19:27) Early in his ministry there is a situation in the context of his first "sign" where he is with his mother and brothers at a wedding feast. (John 2:1-12) [NOTE: Though Jesus had sisters they are not included in these verses. (Matthew 13:56; Mark 6:3)]

Showing the intent or meaning is how other scholars translate the phrase. Goodspeed: "Do not try to direct me. It is not yet time for me to act"; Torrey: "Trouble me not, woman; my hour has not yet come"; Knox: "why doest thou trouble me with that"; NEB: "your concern, mother, is not mine." Some think the mother of the Lord took herself too seriously and she errs in trying to direct her adult son who is now the Messiah. Jesus rebukes her and makes it clear that he is not to be controlled by any woman, including his mother.

Why is the woman so frightened? One reason may well be that she realizes she is violating the Law of Moses by touching someone in her condition. (Leviticus 15:26) Jesus does not condemn her for this. We learn from the woman that there are times when the "weightier matters of the law such as mercy" may take precedence. We learn of a suffering woman, now poor from paying out to doctors, who possesses both faith and courage. Often the two go hand in hand. The Nazarene addresses her as "daughter" -- his own kin in the seed of Abraham.

There is only one case in the Gospels where a woman tells Jesus he is wrong. We turn our attention to this with great interest. The account reads:

Having said it was "not right" to take the bread intended for the children of the house and give it to "little puppies" our Lord turns right around and does what he said it was not right to do! The grieving mother, thinking not of herself, but only of her little daughter, is embolden by her motherly love to make the Nazarene change his mind. She does this respectfully, addressing Jesus as "lord" the equivalent of "sir" or "senor." She prostrates herself in the dirt at his feet even as Abigail did to David in the account about Nabal. She makes her plea humbly in public despite the rebuke of the Lord’s disciples. In the end it is her persistence and faith which turns the Nazarene’s heart to make an exception in her case -- healing a Gentile girl he has never met.

There is only one woman whom the Lord assures will forever be connected with the Gospel. The account has much to teach us:

The words of the Nazarene assured that this story would be part and parcel of the Gospel message throughout the world. And, just so it is recorded in two of the Gospels. There is a marvelous lesson taught by this woman and Jesus: an expensive gift may be used according to God’s purpose. Not all potential financial benefit need go to the poor. The value of this woman’s gift equaled a yearly wage. What must this amount to in modern exchange? And yet, at the same time, the poor are not to be overlooked.

One of the loveliest stories in the Gospels is the one of the "unwanted guest." The Nazarene has been invited to a feast prepared by a religious teacher who held himself above mankind in general. The unique account in Luke 7:36-40 reads:

Jesus tells the parable of two debtors. For our purposes let us say one owed $5,000 and the other $500,000. Both debts were canceled by the master. The question of the Nazarene to the self-righteous rabbi is, "Which of the two will love the master more?" Luke 7:43-50 continues:

Some understand that where Jewish rabbis met for supper any might attend to hear God’s word. The presence of a prostitute is a bit much for the clergyman. He doubts Jesus as a prophet. Yet, as the Nazarene explains to him in an indirect rebuke, the Pharisee has failed in displaying love while "this woman" possessed the humility and love necessary to make such a public display of intimacy.

Woman often understand more than men what goes into entertaining guests. Women also can get very nervous about all the affairs of preparing for hospitality. What is one to do if the greatest man who ever lived calls at your home? Again, it is the good doctor who tell us a unique story (Luke 10:38-42):

We have to feel for Martha for her motives were as pure as her sister’s. However, Mary demonstrates the importance of spiritual matters over the material even if it means to sacrifice some amenities. The lesson is eternal and in one manner or another is repeated over and over again around the world.

One notes later, after he brother Lazarus dies, it is Martha who rushes to meet Jesus declaring her faith in the resurrection. (John 11:11-26)

It is the good doctor again who tells a unique story of another woman and how she gave her all. Luke recounts the episode:

The Nazarene demonstrate his keen awareness and skill at observance as he notes the exact amount of the widow’s donation to the Temple. The coins are smaller and thinner than the fingernail on the little finger. The little lady demonstrates to us the need to trust to God and be willing to contribute toward God’s purpose even beyond our own security. Our Lord is fully aware of our own charity.

The Jews were under a heavy burden of does and don’ts which far beyond the original 600 laws of Moses. For example, rabbis did not engage women in spiritual discourse. Additionally, Jews had nothing to do with Samaritans who were considered demonized. (John 8:48) So, it is very unusual from the perspective of his own disciples to find the Nazarene chatting with a Samaritan woman. The beloved apostle John records the meeting. (John 4:7-30, 39-42)

By this moving and famous discourse we learn our Lord did not share the prejudice of his own religion -- the Jewish hatred of the Samaritans as demonized second class citizens. Also, the Nazarene does not share the rabbinical view that speaking to women about religious matters was verboten. Jesus is not going to be influenced by social or cultural attitudes toward women as well as others of different religious backgrounds.

We cannot fail but note that the much-married lady leaves her water jar at the well -- interrupting her duties -- and immediately reports to her own people the experience she has just enjoyed. Likely, the Samaritans, like the Jews, rejected the testimony of women, and so they had to see for themselves.

The Nazarene had stated he came only to "he lost sheep of the house of Israel" (Matthew 10:6; 15:24) but he stated after his resurrection he would draw all kinds of people. (John 12:32) Thus, later in the Book of Acts the Samaritans receive an official apostolic mission. (Acts 1:8; 8:1-17) Possibly this was the second of three "keys of the kingdom" given to Peter. (Matthew 16:19) Thus, we may give the credit to the Samaritan woman at the well to be the first evangelizer leading to the conversion of the Samaritans.

Women play a strong and courageous part in the death and resurrection of Jesus the Nazarene. Though the personal apostles of Jesus seem to tremble in fear and remain aloof from any close proximity to the Lord’s execution, women are there throughout the entire process.

First, note the women present at the execution of the Lord: "Moreover, many women were there viewing from a distance, who had accompanied Jesus from Gal'i·lee to minister to him; among whom was Mary Mag'da·lene, also Mary the mother of James and Jo'ses, and the mother of the sons of Zeb'e·dee. (These woman) used to minister to him when he was in Gal'i·lee, and many other women who had come up together with him to Jerusalem." (Matthew 27:55, 56; Mark 15:41) No where does the account in the Gospels record that the Nazarene’s male followers were so gathered to witness his death. The exception is the beloved apostle John. All the men fled and thus fulfilled the prophecy: ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered about.’ (Matthew 26:31; Zechariah 13:7) Here the "sheep" are largely the males among the disciples of the Nazarene.

Next, it is largely women who are brave enough to handle and prepared the lifeless body of Jesus for burial.

It is stated that it took courage for Joseph to ask for the body of Jesus. Just so, likely it took courage on the part of the various women to declare themselves in the matter of preparing the body of Jesus for burial. In this process they become iron-clad witnesses that Jesus was in fact dead for they had handled the corpse.

Finally, for reasons we will explain, it is women who are the first witnesses of our Lord’s resurrection. Again, while the male disciples are basically in hiding struggling with their doubts, it is the women who go to visit the tomb Sunday morning.

It is impossible to put in words the rapturous emotions which must have been occurring at this moment. Besides this, what is most exciting from a historians viewpoint is that the testimony of women was useless in a Jewish court. The fact all the Gospels testify that women were the original witnesses proves the account is genuine. If the story was a fabrication written much later it would seem the male authors would have contrived that the first eye witnesses were males. The accounts also are candid in admitting that the male disciples were in effect hiding out of fear. The Gospels have the powerful ring of truth and the above has not escaped the notice of recognized historians.

We also note that the angel tells the ladies to report to "his disciples" limiting these to males as no woman has previously been called a disciple.

These are the last mention of women in the Gospels. Though the important event of the ascension of Christ to heaven is reported, there is no Scriptural evidence that women witnessed this event. It seems to have been limited to only the eleven apostles. (Luke 24:33, 51; Acts 1:4-11)

[NOTE: Part Five in the March issue will consider the role of women in the early Nazarene Community.]

Many are familiar with the grand vision of celestial victory recorded in Revelation 12:9-12. There the apocalyptic vision describes the ouster of Satan and his demonic angels from heaven itself. The beloved apostle John records what he saw:

the one called The Devil and The Satan,

How can we know when this event occurs? Few would argue that the context would help to determine this. Additionally, we are interested if there are related verses elsewhere in the Bible which might confirm the exact moment when Satan is hurled from heaven to the earth.

The three chapters of Revelation -- 11, 12, 13 -- have several things in common, not the least of which are: a) an identical time period with its source in Daniel chapters 7 and 12 -- 42 months, 1,260 days, or three and a half years; and, b) an oppression against the Saints during this same period. Suppose we were to combine the three over-lapping chapters in a single compound paraphrase called a conflate? These verses would read:

The entire vision finds its source in Daniel 7:21-25 and 12:1, 7 where it is an 11th Small Power which oppresses the Saints for three and a half years. It is at the end of this period that the Ancient of Days (represented by the Son of Man) becomes present with the Saints of the Most High. Compare these verses with those we have read above:

These verses harmony perfectly with the Nazarene’s own prophecy about a "great oppression" on the Elect just prior to his foretold Parousia. In Matthew 24:29-31 our Lord prophesied:

This heaven sent rescue or deliverance would harmonize with Daniel 7:22 and 12:1. Is it fair to conclude that this three and a half year period of "great oppression" occurs just before the Return or Parousia of our Lord?

Who causes this "great oppression" against the Saints or Elect (the remnant of the woman’s seed)? Daniel lays the blame on an 11th "little horn" while the Revelation describes this same one as the wild sea beast. The Nazarene taught that his visible parousia or arrival would occur after the "great oppression" of three and a half years.

Now, in harmony with this, when would the Devil be cast out of heaven? And, once cast out, what would he do, using what agency?

Let us read a portion of the account in Revelation 12:7-17:

Is it fair to state that Satan is cast out before the period of three and a half years? Is it fair to state that Satan begins his war against the Remnant upon his ouster from heaven? If we move backward from the Return of Christ (the beginning of the Parousia) we first encounter three and a half years of Great Oppression against the Saints as Daniel foretold. It is the Devil who starts the "war" of oppression against those Saints living just three and a half years before the Parousia. Satan clearly uses the instrument of the wild sea beast (the same as the 11th Small Power in Daniel) as the persecutor of God’s people. Revelation 13:2 says, "And the dragon gave to [the beast] its power and its throne and great authority." This must happen upon Satan’s ouster from heaven.

When, then, is Satan to be cast out of heaven? That time is yet future as best we can judge. When the Devil is thrown down to the earth it is then that the great oppression begins through the instrumentality of the wild sea beast. Three and a half years follow at the end of which it appears Satan and his political instrument are victorious. But, suddenly at the height of the danger, Michael "appears" (See Daniel 12:1 Jewish Publication Society, Tanakh; Matthew 24:29, 30)) and "we the living" at that moment are snatched out of harm’s way in what has been called the Rapture. (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Daniel 12:1, 2; Matthew 24:31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1)

This Rapture occurs right in the prophetic context of Revelation chapters 11, 12, 13 at Revelation 11:2, 7, 12, "(The nations) will trample the holy city [New Jerusalem; compare Zechariah 14:12, 16] underfoot for forty-two months. ... The wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them. ... And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: ‘Come on up here.’ And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them." This must be the same as the phrase in Daniel 7:22, "Judgment itself was given in favor of the Saints of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the Saints took possession of the kingdom itself." (Compare 1 Corinthians 15:50-52)

Now the phrase that the Devil knows his time is short makes great sense, for surely he is aware only three and a half years or more remain before his own judgment. For this reason he is extremely angry and that "woe for the earth" mainly falls upon those Saints living at this precise prophetic moment. His anger is vented against the Remnant of New Jerusalem. For some Saints this will mean the "sword" of martyrdom, for others imprisonment or concentration camps. (Revelation 6:9-11; 13:10) No matter how great this final holocaust upon God’s people, we are assured of ultimate victory by reason of our faith in the blood of the Lamb and our testimony regarding Jesus. (Revelation 12:11)

Surely we draw comfort from 1 John 5:18, "For the Son of God will guard (one God-born) that the Wicked One does not get a grip him." What a joy to know that when we undergo our "change" -- either by resurrection or rapture -- we will enter a heaven cleansed of the Devil and satanic powers!

• SPRING CONFERENCE APRIL 2-5: The Free Bible Students are holding their Western Christian Believers Conference at Arrowhead Springs Christian Conference Center, 24600 Arrowhead Springs Road, San Bernardino, CA. For more information email David Karavas -- . The overall theme is "The Power of His Resurrection."

TRANS: RSV: knowledge is easy for a man of understanding; BAS: the hater of authority, searching for wisdom, does not get it; but knowledge comes readily to the open-minded man

CROSS REF: Proverbs 18:15

NOTE: Who does this one "ridicule"? Those who possess the guidance or experience to direct him on a course of wisdom -- but he not only does not listen to them, he ridicules them and as a result remains ignorant. Knowledge is easy to one with understanding not only for the reasons listed below but also because the understanding one is willing to submissive listen to those longer on the road of life than he.

TRANS: BER: leave the presence of a man who is a fool, for you will not discern words of knowledge there; NEB: avoid a stupid man, you will hear not a word of sense from him

CROSS REF: Proverbs 1:29; 13:20

WORD: The word "stupid" occurs 88 times in the Bible with the first occurrence at Deuteronomy 32:6 and the most occurrences in Proverbs, 49 times; it occurs only once in the Christian Bible at Romans 10:19. The word "stupid" occurs 5 times in this chapter: 14:8, 16, 24, 33.

NOTE: There is no use at all of giving a stupid person your audience for despite ridiculous assertions you will never gain useable knowledge. This is wasted time for one to listen or read the pronouncements of an atheistic philosopher. (Psalm 14:1)

TRANS: BER: the folly of fools is deceit; SPRL: injurious deception

CROSS REF: Proverbs 11:18 and 14:12 = deceit

NOTE: The wise are shrewd but not deceitful. The stupid are known by their deceit. The godless may use deceit in a self-style Socratic argumentation to prove God does not exist. Paul warns of vain philosophy in Colossians 2:8, "Be careful that nobody spoils your faith through intellectualism or high-sounding nonsense. He may set forth some human tradition, or some theory about the nature of the universe, but not the teachings of Christ." (PME, NOR)

TRANS: RHM: the foolish scoff at guilt; KNX: fools make light of the guilt that needs atonement and leave honest men to enjoy the Lord’s favour; AAT: guilt has its home among fools; good will among the upright

CROSS REF: Proverbs 10:23 and Proverbs 30:20 = unity

NOTE: The foolish deriding guilt stands in contrast to the agreement among the upright. The fool, because of his moral insensibility has no standard by which to judge guilt in himself or others, and therefore ignores -- or is critical of laws -- judicial decisions which would pronounce guilt; whereas, the righteous, by adhering to correct standards have no difficulty in agreeing on what is wrong or guilty.

The upright or righteous must agree as to what is law or rules of conduct for society. Paul puts it, ‘The law is not formed for the law-abiding, but for the law-breaker.’ The righteous need never fear law and thus they agree among one another as to what is truly right and wrong.

TRANS: MOF: the heart knows its own bitter misery and no outsider shares its joy; JB: the heart knows its own grief best

CROSS REF: Proverbs 15:13 = sympathy

NOTE: You must walk a mile in another’s sandals before understanding someone’s grief or joy. 1 Corinthians 2:11 is a good commentary on this verse. Often we say to someone grieved, "I know how you feel," when this is not likely. Better to say, "I sympathize with what you must be going through."

TRANS: LXX: the houses of the wicked shall vanish but the tents of the upright shall stand

CROSS REF: Proverbs 3:33; 10:2, 3; 12:7; 13:22; 21:12

NOTE: Choose between an annihilated house or a flourishing tent. A house is stationary and generally safer than a tent. People who live in tents are either nomads or poor and they enjoy the freedom of easy movement but their dwellings are liable to storm or damage. It is better to live in an upright tent than a wicked house, particularly one gained by fraud or selfishness. Compare Jesus and Paul in their "unsettled" and homeless states as examples of the above. (1 Corinthians 4:11)

TRANS: JB: there is a way that some men think right; AAT: seems straight; NEB: may seem straightforward

CROSS REF: Proverbs16:25 and Proverbs 30:12 = delusion

NOTE: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Have you ever met a person without an opinion? Have you ever met such a person with an opinion who thought the opinion wrong?

TRANS: SPRL: even in laughter the heart may be sad; LB: laughter cannot mask a heavy heart -- when the laughter ends, grief remains

CROSS REF: Ecclesiastes 2:2 = insane laughter; Ecclesiastes 7:2, 4 = stupid rejoicing

NOTE: "Laughing on the outside while crying on the inside." One must be sensitive and aware to discern the broken heart behind a cheerful smile. Perhaps, after public appearances with a front of laughter, this rejoicing ultimately turns to sadness when in private. Ask a business man how business and he will laugh and assure you it is great; while privately, as soon as you have left, his truly reality settles in. There may also be a hypocrisy behind a wide smile. This false front may mask the pain of jealousy when in the presence of the envied person but returns to inward grief.

TRANS: KJ: backslider; JPS: dissembler; JB: unstable; AAT: perverse; LAM: insolent; KNX: incorrigible

CROSS REF: Proverbs 1:31, 32 = good man

NOTE: The unfaithful are self-satisfied, deluded into thinking their unbelieving course will lead to success whereas the good man, superior to the righteous man, can always be satisfied and happy with the way he has dealt with unfortunates. The materialist’s real problem is lack of faith otherwise he would be content with the results of the good man; but, because he doesn’t really believe in the promises of God he becomes content with his selfish and materialistic way of life.

"Backsliding begins unseen in the heart. A slipping begins secretly and imperceptibly in his heart, while appearances on the surface are kept unchanged. He ceases to watch and pray. He admits vain thoughts, and gives them encouragement to lodge within him. Having no hunger for righteousness, he neglects the bread of life. When you see a man who was once counted a Christian standing shamelessly on a mountain-top of open impiety, or lying in the miry pit of vice, you may safely assume that he has long been worming his way in secret on the spiral slimy track by which the old serpent marks and smoothes the way of death." (Arnot pp 274-5)

#288. In the primitive church or ecclesia there were elders (older men) just as there were in the Jewish congregation. The Greek word translated overseer -- (NASB, NWT), bishop (KJ, ABUV), presiding officer (TCNT), superintendent (GDSP), minister (MON), pastor (WMS), leadership (NEB) -- is epi-scopes (ove4r + see/look). The word occurs in the plural at Acts 20:28 and Philippians 1:1; in the singular at 1 Timothy 3:1, 2; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 2:25. In two cases the word is associated with the word "shepherd."

#289. Some translators include the word "office" at 1 Timothy 3:1. (KJV, NASB, ABUV, ASV, GDSP, MON, WMS) Paul uses "overseer" as a synonym for "elder" (presbyterous). (Titus 1:5, 7) The same may be inferred in 1 Timothy 3:1-7 when Paul says the "overseer" should not be a neophyte. In the Jewish congregation men had to be 30 before embarking on priestly duties, the same age of the Nazarene when he began his own work. The word for "elder(s)" occurs more often. (1 Timothy 4:14; 5:1, 17, 19; Titus 1:5; James 5:14; 1 Peter 5:1, 5; 2 John 1; 3 John 1) The word occurs often in relation to Jewish opposers of Jesus and the disciples.

#291. Indeed, the opposite of godly overseers are identified by Paul: "Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed you overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which He purchased with the blood of His own [Son]. I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." (Acts 20:27-30 NWT)

#292. Evidently this did not mean the flock were to be disrespectful or ignore those setting the example among them as elders or overseers. Paul states the spiritual authority men had and encourages submissiveness. (Titus 2:15; Hebrews 13:7, 17)

#293. In order to be appointed to the office of "overseer" (or, elder) a man had to meet a number of qualifications or characteristics first. The following is a discussion of these based on 1 Timothy 3:1-7 and Titus 1:5-8.

#294. TRANS: NASB: aspires; ABUV: longs for; RHM: if anyone for oversight is eager; TCNT: Presiding Officer; GDSP: superintendent; NEB: to aspire to leadership. The New Jerusalem Bible: "To want to be a presiding elder is to desire a noble task." "It is quite true to say that a man who sets his heart on leadership has laudable ambition." (1 Timothy 3:1, PME)

#295. MARG: see Exodus 18:21 and Acts 20:28 = overseer; 1 Timothy 5:17 = hard work.

#297. WORD: (Grk: anepilempton blameless)

MARG: see 1Timothy 5:7; 6:14 = unaccusable; Titus 1:6 = free from accusation.

#298. TRANS: ASV: be without reproach; TCNT: of blameless character; KNX: with whom no fault can be found; AMP: no grounds for accusation; LB: a good man whose life cannot be spoken against.

#299. NOTE: The reputation of the man who would be an overseer or elder must not be someone presently accused of a genuine wrong. This does not mean he must be perfect no more than Job was. (Job 1:8, 9; 2:3) It is to be expected that he will have the same war and struggle as Paul. (Romans 7:13-25) However, generally speaking, and to a reasonable degree, this man ought to be free from legitimate accusation; that is, a man with a good reputation in Christian living after the walk of Jesus.

#300. Paul received a "bad report" on occasion (2 Corinthians 6:8) and came in for his share of criticism (2 Corinthians 10:10) so it is understandable that detractors of certain responsible men in the limelight may be accused wrongly or with ill motive -- even attacked by false brothers (Galatians 2:4) -- and, therefore it is wise to evaluate carefully the source of any apparently unjust accusations by those with hidden agendas. Jealousy or contention may often be the underlying cause for an unjust accusation. Compare the cases of Job, David and Jesus.

#301. TRANS: NEB: faithful to his one wife; MOF: he must be married only once.

#302. NOTE: Regarding Moffatt’s rendering above, see 1 Timothy 5:9 where the worthy widow is "a wife of one husband." This expression infers she has been married only once. If the opposite is applied to the qualified overseer he could not be a divorced man married to more than one woman or wife.

#303. NOTES: Jesus had directed that his disciples should hold to God's original marital arrangement, one man for one woman. (Matthew 19:5, 6) Hence, no person could be baptized as a Christian until he ceased being a polygamist. Yet it was fitting for Paul to emphasize the matter as to elders, because polygamy had been allowed among the Jews and might prevail in lands where Christianity would spread. A new person associating with the congregation should be able to see from the example of the elders that monogamy, not polygamy, was the acceptable arrangement for Christians.

#304. But the phrase "husband of one wife" could imply more. At that time the prevailing moral laxity was reflected in easy, frequent divorces and remarriages.

"In the corrupt facility of divorce allowed both by the Greek and Roman law, it was very common for man and wife to separate, and marry other parties, during the life of one another. Thus a man might have three or four living wives; or, rather, women who had all successively been his wives." (The Life and Epistles of St. Paul, by Conybeare and Howson) It was to be different for a Christian. Only if his mate committed "fornication" (gross sexual immorality) would he be free to get a divorce and marry another. (Matthew 5:32; 19:9) The qualification of "a husband of one wife" would mean that an elder would set the example in not being a man who divorced a wife without Scriptural grounds and thereafter remarried.

Some scholars have understood 1 Timothy 3:2 to mean that an elder could not at all marry a second time. However, what Jesus had said earlier and what Paul elsewhere wrote indicate that remarriage was not wrong, so it would not make a man reprehensible or disqualify him from serving as an elder in the congregation. Recall that Paul wrote that widows (and, logically, widowers) would do better to marry than to burn with passion or become unoccupied meddlers. (1 Corinthians 7:8, 9, 36-39; 1 Timothy 5:13, 14)

#305. An elder's being "a husband of one wife" would also convey the thought of his being innocent of bigamy or adultery. He was to be morally irreprehensible in his married life, loyal and true to his wife. Thus, The New English Bible renders the verse in this way, the overseer "must be above reproach, faithful to his one wife." Consequently, by saying that an overseer must be "a husband of one wife," Paul, in a few words, was stressing from various angles the high moral example to be set by a married elder. Anyone should be able to look at him and sense that he was a living example of the elevated view of marriage found in genuine Christianity.

#306. NOTE: What kind of "wife" is this? The sudden appearance of verse 11 and the word "women" -- which also may mean "wives" in Greek -- makes no sense unless it lists minimal requirements of an overseer’s "wife" or a deaconness. [Though the later could have been covered by the following regarding deacons.] As in the case of the "any man" of verse 1, this "woman" could be expected to live up to the principle of the spirit of 1 Corinthians 14:30-33; Ephesians 5:33; 1 Timothy 2:9-15; Titus 2:3-5; 1 Peter 3:1-6. These qualifications below require (assuming a believing Christian woman) that same state mentioned in verse 1. (Compare Titus 2:3 and counsel to "aged women.") The following would be required of an overseer’s wife (or a deaconess).

[To be continued March 1999.]

How fast the years fly! Each year we live with earnest expectation of the promised Return (Parousia) of our Lord. (Luke 12:35, 36) While we await in yearning hope for the King’s triumphant Appearing to the world, we are instructed by Paul -- as part of "the Lord’s commandment" -- to observe the celebration of the Lord’s Supper:

"For as often as you eat the Loaf and drink the Cup you continue to announce the death of the Lord until which (time) he arrives." (1 Corinthians 11:26; 1 Corinthians 14:37)

Clearly, if the Lord had already arrived in his foretold Parousia Christians would no longer be commemorating the death of the Lord by eating the Loaf and drinking the Cup because they would not be present with their Lord. Though some would argue this ‘arrival’ is a personal one to take each individual ‘home’ when he/she dies. However, Paul never uses the Greek elthe (come, arrive) in this manner.

Few Christians would argue that the Lord’s Supper need not be observed today. There is a wide range of opinion or viewpoint on when the Eucharist (Blessing), or Memorial, should be observed. This ranges from the Roman Catholics who observe Mass every day. Many denominations do this every Sunday. Others once a month. Others do so annually around the Jewish Passover. Still others feel Holy Communion (sharing) may be kept at any time while sharing a regular meal.

After having eaten the traditional Passover meal, our Lord started something new:

As a Jew celebrating this new emblematic communion meal it would be hard to argue these disciples did not understand they were to do this annually on Nisan 14, just as their Lord had instituted it. This would have been consistent with their own traditional past in annual festivals. Thus, when Paul uses the word "often" (Greek = HOSAKIS) in 1 Corinthians 11:26 he may have well meant yearly on Nisan 14.

Interestingly, such a celebration is missing from the Acts of the Apostles though some would want to place it there. They would argue that the disciples "breaking bread" is really describing the Lord’s Supper. Consider Acts 2:42, "But they were persevering in the teaching of the apostles and to communal sharing, to the breaking of the bread and to prayers." Again, at Acts 2:46, "And daily they were ... breaking of bread in their own homes." And once more, at Acts 20:7, "And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them." (NAS; compare also KJV, WMS; BECK, "On Sunday.") These are taken by some to prove the Lord’s Supper was celebrated more often than annually.

However, is it only fair to compare the exact wording in Acts 20:7? The Greek is, EN DE TE MIA TON SABBATON which means literally, "And on one of the sabbaths ... " (See the United Bible Societies Interlinear) Thus, it would seem this gathering to share a meal was on Saturday and likely, judging from the context, began in the evening. Thus, some versions render the Greek, "On the Saturday night ... " (New English Bible) On the other hand many feel this is Sunday. This is most interesting because the context reveals that this was on the Passover. It is possible -- though not absolute -- that this was Passover which may have fallen on Sunday evening that year. It is therefore a potential idea is that this was a meeting of the Lord’s Supper or Memorial, indeed in the evening -- on a Sunday which was also a sabbath for any day the Passover fell was a sabbath.

Also, it is only fair to determine what KLASAI HARTON ("break bread") means. Is it limited to the Lord’s Supper? (compare John 6:23) It seems a great leap to assume that the mere phrase "breaking bread" is automatically referring to the Lord’s Supper. After all, breaking breads was only half of the celebration. Why is not the drinking of the cup also mentioned? Many translations render the expression as a "meal" not inferring at all to the Lord’s Supper. (Beck, NWT)

The Third Century Christian historian Eusebeias records a division which developed regarding Easter: "It was at that stage (189 AD) that a controversy of great significance took place, because all the Asian dioceses thought in accordance with ancient tradition they ought to observe the fourteenth day of the lunar month (Nisan 14,the day of the Passover full moon) as the beginning of the Paschal festival -- the day on which the Jews had been commanded to sacrifice the lamb: on that day, no matter which day of the week it might be. ... All of these kept the fourteenth day of the month as the beginning of the Paschal festival, in accordance with the Gospel. ... Anicetus could not persuade Polycarp not to keep the day (Nisan 14), since he had always kept it with John (the apostle) of our Lord and the other apostles with whom he had been familiar. ... We may point out to you they keep the feast on the same day (Nisan 14) as we do, for these send letters to them and they to us, to ensure that we keep the holy in harmony and at the same time." (THE HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, Eusebius, pp -229-234)

M'Clintock and Strong agree: "The churches of Asia Minor celebrated the death of the Lord on the day corresponding to the 14th of the month Nisan, on which day, according to the opinion of the whole ancient Church, the crucifixion took place."

Another historian confirms: "The Christians of Asia Minor were accustomed to celebrate this sacred feast, commemorative of the institution of the Lord's supper, and the death of Jesus Christ, at the same time when the Jews ate their Paschal lamb, namely on the evening of the fourteenth day of the first month. For . . . they considered the example of Christ possessing the force of law; and, as is equally manifest, they did not conceive our Savior to have anticipated the Passover, . . . but that the Paschal lamb was eaten by him and his disciples on the same day on which the Jews . . . were accustomed to eat theirs." (J. L. von Mosheim History of Christianity, the First Three Centuries (Vol. 1, p. 529))

Therefore, the historical tradition is very strong in confirming the early Christians in the first two centuries observed the Lord’s Supper only once a year on the Jewish Passover date of Nisan 14 which begins at sunset and full moon-rise.

Some wonder what is required of a person who wishes to become a baptized disciple of Jesus the Nazarene. How much must the person know, understand or have come to learn. Must the willing disciple only agree to such "fundamental" points as recognizing God’s existence, the place of the Son in His purpose, and, acknowledging that one is a sinner.

Some will claim there are no "fundamentals" and teach that doctrine is unimportant. While claiming that few beliefs beyond God and Jesus are non-essential they speak in abstraction about nebulous understandings as if as long as they were kind and loving it mattered little what they believed as to what Jesus and his inspired disciples taught.

In order to "come to the Son" one must have "heard" from the Father and then "learned." What would one have "heard" from the Father? How and where would this information be found. Is it fair to conclude that this would be in what Jesus called the "truth" when he said, "Your word is Truth." (John 17:17) Jesus himself demonstrate how one hears from the Father by quoting and alluding to a great sum of those words found in the inspired Hebrew Scriptures.

The sayings of Jesus Christ are a matter of life. In the Gospel of John alone those "sayings" amount to many thousands of words and cover a wide range of subjects. If we include those sayings in the other three Gospels and their thousands of words spoken by Jesus we have certain clear subjects:

(Matthew 4:17; 5:3, 10, 19, 21; 6:10, 33; 7:21; 8:11, 12; 10:7; 11:11, 12; 13:11, 19, 24-30, 33, 36-52; 16:19, 28; 18:1-6, 23-25; 19:12, 14, 23, 24; 20:1-16; 21:31, 43; 22:2-14; 23:13; 24:14; 24:29-25:46; 26:29; Mark 1:15; 4:11-20, 26-32; 9:1; 10:14, 15, 23-27; 12:34; 14:25; Luke 4:43; 6:20; 7:28; 8:10-15; 9:27, 60, 62; 11:2; 12:31-48; 13:18-21, 28, 29; 14:15; 16:16; 17:20-37; 18:16, 24-30; 19:11-27; 21:31; 22:16-18, 29, 30; 19:11-27; 21:31; 22:16-18, 29, 30; John 3:3-5; 18:36)

Judgment

(Matthew 10:15; 11:22, 24; 12:36, 41, 42; 13:36-43; 22:30; 23:33; Luke 10:14; 11:31, 32; John 3:17, 19; 5:24, 29; 12:47-50; 16:8, 11)

(Matthew 24:27, 37-25:46; Luke 17:20-37; 19:11-27)

(Matthew 22:23-32; Mark 12:18-27; Luke 14:14; 20:27-39; John 5:29; 6:39, 40, 44, 45; 1124-26)

(Matthew 24:21, 29; Mark 13:19, 24)

Salvation

(Luke 19:9; John 4:22)

The above "sayings" deal with what our Lord calls "doctrine." (John 7:17 KJV) These involve prophecies and chronology of events. Surely one who is to embark on the course of discipleship must know what his Master teaches. The other major subject in the teachings of the Nazarene deal with what is involved in "following the Lamb no matter where he goes." (Revelation 14:4)

Faith

(Matthew 6:30; 8:10, 13, 26; 9:22, 28, 29; 14:31; 15:28; 16:8; 17:20; 18:6; 21:21, 22; Mark 4:40; 5:34, 36; 9:23; 10:52; 11:22-24; Luke 7:9, 50; 8:25, 48, 50; 12:28; 17:9, 50; 18:8, 42; 22:32; John 3:16, 18, 36; 6:29, 35, 40; 7:38, 39; 9:35; 11:25, 26; 12:36, 37, 42, 46; 14:1, 12; 17:20)

Love

(Matthew 5:43, 44, 46; 6:24 19:19; 22:37, 39; 24:12; Mark 12:30, 31; Luke 6:27, 32, 35; 7:42; 10:27; 11:42, 43; 16:13; John 5:42; 7:42; 8:42; 13:34, 35; 14:15, 21, 23, 24, 31; 15:9, 10, 12, 13; 15:17; 17:26; 21:15, 16)

Forgiveness

(Matthew 6:12, 14, 15; 9:2, 5, 6; 12:31, 32; 18:21, 22, 35; 26:28; Mark 2:5, 9, 10; 3:28, 29; 4:12; 11:25; Luke 5:20, 24; 7:47-49; 11:4; 12:10; 17:3, 4; 23:34; 24:47; John 20:23)

Giving

(Matthew 5:42; 7:6, 11; 10:8, 42; 17:27; 19:21; 20:28; 24:45; 25:37; Mark 8:3; 9:41; 10:21, 45; Luke 6:30, 38; 9:13; 11:13, 41; 12:33, 48; 19:26; 22:19; John 4:14; 6:32-37; 10:28; 11:22; 14:16, 27; 16:23; 17:8, 22)

(Matthew 5:6, 10, 20; 6:1, 33; John 16:8, 10)

Repentance

(Luke 5:32; 15:7; 24:47)

If one is to do the will of God, first one must know the teachings of Christ.

To be a disciple of the Nazarene one must know the truth as revealed in the "word" (sayings, teachings) of the Lord.

Not only must one know the word of the Lord but it must also be "observed" or kept.

It is the "word" (sayings and teachings) that will judge the Christian on Judgment Day. If one rightly wants a favorable judgment then it follows that it is only the course of wisdom to study and know ‘the word the Nazarene spoke.’

If one wishes the love of Christ and his Father one must observe his "word" (sayings, commandments, teachings). Those who do not observe this "word" cannot claim to belong to Christ.

Additional teachings were to be revealed to the apostles and these are presented in additional portions of the New Testament.

In order to remain in the love of Christ one must continue to observe his "commandments" which infers a knowledge of these.

Friendship with the Lord is only maintained by obedience to the commandments of the Nazarene. These are not suggestions or mere opinions, they are the regulations of the King.

The arrival of the "spirit of the truth" will guide the apostles by inspiration into ALL THE TRUTH including certain prophetic elements regarding the future.

Not only is the "word" of the Nazarene vital to life and salvation, so also is that "word" to which the spirit of truth will guide these inspired men. One cannot come to belief and conviction in Christ outside the "word" of the apostles which have now appeared in the complete New Testament.

This would surely include the beloved John’s first letter where he stresses the importance of the "doctrine of Christ." (2 John 9 KJV)

2 John 9-11 -- "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching (doctrine) of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching (doctrine) is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works." There is a "teaching" (or, doctrine) to "remain in." In order to do so one must know what this doctrine is. Surely it is composed of the sayings of Jesus, as well as writings of his inspired disciples moved by the promised Pneuma.

The rest of the New Testament --

Romans 6:17 -- "You became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching (form of doctrine; type of teaching) to which you were handed over." There was a certain form or type of teaching which characterized the Gospel.

Romans 16:17 -- "Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching (doctrine) that you have learned, and avoid them." Paul does not tolerate those who would deviate from the Gospel he preached under the guidance of the pneumatic helper Jesus promised. (John 14-16)

1 Timothy 6:2-4 -- "Keep on teaching these things and giving these exhortations. If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything." Paul categories two classes of teaching: that which is attributed to the Nazarene; and, that which resulted from the inspiration of his disciples. In other words, the New Testament is the basis for judging unhealthy "doctrine."

2 Timothy 3:16 -- "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching." This "scripture" would include what Timothy was reared on, the Hebrew Bible; and, those later "Scriptures" Peter mentions, including Paul. (2 Peter 3:16) Thus Christian teaching involves "all Scripture."

Hebrews 6:1-3 -- "For this reason, now that we have left the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying a foundation again, namely, repentance from dead works, and faith toward God, the teaching on baptisms and the laying on of the hands, the resurrection of the dead and everlasting judgment. And this we will do, if God indeed permits." Here Paul lists six primary doctrines beyond which the Christian is to grow to maturity:

As Paul wrote in Hebrews 6:1 that new Christians would continue to develop in maturity. Hebrews 5:11 - 6:1 counsels: "Concerning (Christ) we have much to say and hard to be explained, since you have become dull in your hearing. For, indeed, although you ought to be teachers in view of the time, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the primary principles of the Words of God; and you have become such as need milk, not solid food. For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained to distinguish both right and wrong. For this reason, now that we have left the primary doctrine about the Christ, let us press on to maturity." Thus Paul identifies what he calls "the primary principles" which a new Christian ought to learn.

When occasions arouse in the early church to unify the widely scattered small home churches letters were carried by representatives of the ‘ruling’ (Hebrews 13:7, 17) body of elders to be observed by all these churches. These letters were not suggestions but dogmatic and resulted in growth. (Acts 16:4, 5; compare the Greek dogmata)

In the several cases recording the baptisms of individuals and crowds it is noted that generally a talk preceded the immersion ceremony. Baptism was a "saving" act and deserved some thought and education. (1 Peter 3:21) On this matter consider: Acts 2:14-41; 8:26-38; 10:1-43; 16:33-35; 17:24-35.

Despite this godly direction both Jesus and Paul predict a future fragmentation of the original true church. The Nazarene does this in his parable of the sower. (Matthew chapter 13) Right in his letter to the Corinthians, Paul says: "For first of all, when you come together in a congregation, I hear schisms exist among you; and in some measure I believe it. For there must also be heresies among you, that the persons approved may also become manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:18-19)

[This is a forum for the free expression of faith and conviction no matter the view or opinion. You are welcome to submit anything in good taste, respectful, and mannerly.]

Even the "Gilgasmesh" account is believed to have come from the "Atrahasis" stories, known to the Babylonians as "inuma-ilu-awilum." There are Old Babylonian and New Assyrian (dynasties) clay fragments that center around a flood story: It is in three tablets, of which the first has not been identified. This version is in some respects fuller than the flood story in "Gilgamesh", for it makes clear the motivation on the god, Enlil's decision to destroy mankind utterly. (page 187)

One may also note that their are many dissimilarities between the "flood" of the OT and the "epic". The book also states that a Prof. S.N. Kramer has demonstrated that a number of Sumerian stories underlie this "Epic".

So, just to say that we would doubt the veracity of the OT flood accounts because of earlier writings would be in error. No one knows who influenced who and one could reasonably speculate that the Semites (Hebrews) may have had oral traditions that were passed down until parchment writing began. We also know that this can be a reliable method as humans have been noted to have amazingly accurate memories in cultures that had no writing. Also, if the OT was so influenced by these previous "epics" then why aren't all of the stories therein
similar to those epics? The truth is, very little in the epics are even close to similar!

Critics of the OT have also noted the Mesopotamian influences in Nahum and the Song of Songs (see the book, "Canticles of Tammuz"). this need not prevent a Christian from finding a spiritual value in these Bible books. (page 486) Were the Bible writers just "stenographers", writing word for word what God said? Might they have written in their own words the message conveyed by divine inspiration?

It is interesting how the Hebrew's language was influenced by other cultures. For example, in Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin coucheth at the door. "Couctheth" is in Hebrew,, ro'bes, which (allowing for vowel changes) is the exact equivalent of Ra'bisu, the name of a Babylonian demon. so this passage could also read as, "the croucher-demon (sin) is lurking at the door."

Another example of this is found in Isaiah 34:14, "The night-monster shall settle there, and shall find her a place of rest." The Hebrew word for "night-monster" is "Lilit", which is remarkably like the Akkadian "Lilitu", a much-feared female demon. (page 485)

As a side note, the books tells us that Tyre fell in 571 BCE. and Egypt was also invaded and laid desolate, just as Ezekiel foretold and was later confirmed by Herodotus. (pages 143, 144)

So, in conclusion, some here have continually used "historical facts" as one basis of ridiculing Christian's faith in the Bible as the "Word of God" and thereby have called our beliefs "ridiculous", but if we take time to do a little research we will see that their claims are just as speculative as they accuse ours of being! They cannot prove us wrong in our faith but can only seek to confuse us by "splitting hairs "with words using their tenets of evolution and "alleged" logical thought.
[Contributed: RB/WW]

There are numerous web page forums and discussion groups aimed at Bible Students, Free Bible Students, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Friends of the Nazarene, and any other group which believe in Bible Truth and God. Some are Trinity-driven and regular posters there will pounce on anyone who is not a Trinitarian. Others are Atheist/Skeptic-driven and though their professed agenda is to aid persons trapped in so-called "cults" (by their own narrow definition) their real purpose is to oppose Christianity -- and any other religious person, including Jews and Moslems who believe in one God.

Each of these forums have "regulars" -- usually only a handful of vocal and impolite self-appointed thinkers. Any honest and sincere person just posting a link or an article on God, the Bible, faith and Christianity, will be instantly pounced upon. If the poster does not agree with this attack they are then verbally lashed with "insulting language" or "insulting manners." One of these atheistic-driven forums is H2O.

Recently an xJW posted on H2O a link to an interesting web page dealing with Biblical archaeology confirming the Scriptures. This thread lead to several other postings by others providing only links to faith-building sites. No accusations or attacks were made or intended against these skeptics. This simple posting of links led to a burst of virulent bile against the Christian posters. Consider just the "insulting language" which occurred in one day:

Atheist/agnostic/skeptic "insulting language" and "insulting manners" against those who believe in God -- Christians, Jews, Moslems, and others:

"braindead"

"fanatics"

"horrible insult"

"totally stupid"

"immoral"

"pointless"

"gross hypocrisy"

"loose all thinking ability"

"pitiable"

"blind faith"

"pathetic whining"

"patently absurd"

"darned ridiculous"

"auto-eroticism"

"drivel"

"arrogant"

"Siamese twins"

"self-righteous hypocrite"

"incoherent"

"the likes of you"

"extreme ignorance"

"amazing you can manage to think"

"completely ignorant"

"fathead"

"foolish"

"stupid"

"idiots"

"jerks"

"insane rants"

"childish behavior"

"garbage"

In the process of this debate the Christian apologists began repeating the many examples of "insulting language" and "insulting manners" (admitted by the prideful skeptics). These are some of the "insulting language" above. Then the Christian posters were attacked for this! They were accused of not being Christian. Jesus was attacked. One poster suggested the world would be a better place as an "atheistic society" and praised Marx, Stalin, and Mao more than Jesus who they blasphemed. As you can see from the list above -- occurring in one 24 hour period -- this list was added to as the attacks continued. This method of revealing real "atheistic colors" was then attacked in similar language. These insults were only because we recorded the attacks of the atheists and skeptics:

"childish behavior"

"garbage"

"up your ... "

"silly"

"yellow"

"arrogant"

"no honest answers"

In addition to the above one atheistic poster included this blasphemous song:

One wonders why H2O does not do something about this. Why should they? Read their own rules for posting on their forum:

How can H2O ever expect to help doubting Bible Students or JWs. What those in de facto control of the forum really want is a godless and irreligious world. When it was suggested which choice would be better: a world under godless communism or Christian democracy, the former was the choice.

In view of the changed agenda of H2O some of us would not recommend this forum for posters or lurkers. Perhaps the moderators and webmasters at H2O will try to regain control and return the forum to what it was formerly.

There are forums where Christians may discuss their beliefs, doubts, fears, and victories without being bombarded by the "insulting language" mentioned above. Perhaps the best of these is Free Bible Students Discussion Forum: http://www.cqlcorp.com/fbs/forums/discuss/ . The atmosphere is loving and helpful -- and though on rare occasion one may be misunderstood -- it is truly an oasis in a cyberspace desert.